tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post511570543947863083..comments2023-05-28T23:41:17.406-07:00Comments on Whipping Girl: Postscript for my “TS-vs-TG-Intervention” piece-juliahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06703465310869693798noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-91112474420376440032013-04-01T08:39:33.285-07:002013-04-01T08:39:33.285-07:00i so much enjoy reading your thoughts on trans iss...i so much enjoy reading your thoughts on trans issues, Julia. they are always so insightful and measured. the comments here are also great. now i have a question which at least to me seems pretty central to a lot of trans, genderqueer, and intersex issues. if formally recognized "women's only" spaces are to continue, won't it be necessary to actually have a general definition of what constitutes a woman?... or perhaps more accurately what constitutes "not-a-man"? Woman's spaces were originally created to keep out those perceived as men... or once again more accurately to keep out post-pubescent males or those approaching puberty. Small boys accompanied by a woman are not excluded. of course, each one of these "spaces" serves some particular purpose of its own (e.g. restrooms, showers, etc.). The reason men are excluded from them may differ somewhat. for example, men are excluded from women's sports because of unfair advantages they may gain from greater exposure to testosterone. famously, the olympics no longer excludes transwomen because their advantage is lost after their new, female-aligned hormone balance has taken effect. Restrooms, changing rooms, showers, women's shelters... each has its mundane purpose.<br /> In Europe (or at least continental Europe) there is practically no restroom issue. Even though many places have gender-marked restrooms, there is seldom any "outrage" when a person perceived as male uses a female designated room. So anyway, customs differ from culture to culture. Still, i would say that every modern culture has some sort of "women's space" that is taken seriously. In America women's restrooms are taken seriously enough that i think it unlikely the presence of people with beards in them will go unchallenged... however much the bearded person may feel that they are female or that gender doesn't really exist. Granted the bearded person in question might in rare cases be a cisgender female and in that case the challenge will be withdrawn (and hopefully with apologies). Similarly, it seems unlikely that women's open showers and changing rooms where there is nudity are going to be welcoming to persons having male organs whether functional or not. None of these things would bother me in particular though they might surprize me because they would be unusual occurances. I'm not, however, talking about me. I'm talking about the great majority of American voters... which overwhelming means cis-people. Certainly, I don't think they are ready for showers yet and that such a move is politcally impossible and will remain so for some time. Many colleges have compromised by making "special arrangements", which to my mind is a pretty reasonable ad hoc solution.<br /> Regarding restrooms, I know that this sort of thing is commonly used by right-wing groups as a scare tactic... and it is commonly linked with the idea that such masculine-appearing people who are inclined to use women's restrooms are sexual predators. The evidence for this correlation is zip, and that is where the commercials are out-and-out lies and slanders. But the fact is if we don't define in some manner who is allowed in women's restrooms and under what conditions, then we have in fact eliminated them as formal "women's spaces". Perhaps that's not a bad thing. Is that true for all women's spaces? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-76671484600405959972012-04-14T07:31:08.043-07:002012-04-14T07:31:08.043-07:00Don't forget that many assert the "transg...Don't forget that many assert the "transgender" is a colonization of transsexual identity by crossdressers. In your other post, one reply reads: <br /><br />"The one reason why I am not willing to accept that someone call me transgender is that "transgender" is a word that comes from Virginia Prince who firstly talked about "real" and "fake" transsexuals in her essay "Transsexuals and Pseudotranssexuals" (Archives of Sexual BEhaviour, Vol.7, 1978). Since that time there's the big lie, that being "transsexual" means "sex-changed". This is some of the bullshit people who wanted to split up transsexual people, argued in the 60ies and 70ies. "Transsexual" doesn't mean "being sex-changed" in origin. "Transsexual" was invented 1923 from Magnus Hirschfeld and what he meant was, that there are sexual variations in nature... and one of this variacions is "Transsexualism"."<br /><br />This is factually incorrect. Here's the real history of "transgender":<br /><br />http://www.cristanwilliams.com/b/tracking-transgender-the-historical-truth/<br /><br />Prince didn't coin transgender; the term existed in print almost a decade before she used it. Transgender was in use prior to transgenderist (another term that existed years before Prince used it) and during the first part of the 70s, transgender meant surgical transsexual. By 1974, the term was used as an umbrella term in both America and England. Christine Jorgensen was promoting "transgender" in the 1970s. No 70s use of "transgender" has been found to only refer to crossdressers. By 1984, trans magazines were writing of the benefits of the "transgender community" (wherein transgender is used as an umbrella term).<br /><br />I wish more transsexuals knew their actual history instead of clinging to their faith in the internet meme "transgender means crossdresser."<br /><br />Also, the term "transsexual" WAS NOT invented by Hirschfeld it was being used as early as 1907 (the term transsex goes back to the mid-1800s) and the term "Transsexed" showed up in print in 1915 to refer to transgenderists.idappaccayatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03906659150571707703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-91746492731424491032012-04-14T02:38:13.954-07:002012-04-14T02:38:13.954-07:00Dear Julia, my apologies for arriving so late to t...Dear Julia, my apologies for arriving so late to this virtual seminar. I love what you say, for its content, its measured tone and the rigour of its argument. Having read through the responses, I am a little lost as to who said what and how it fits together, so I will add my four penn'orth and hope it makes sense.<br /><br />Firstly, I separate my lived identity from the way in which I communicate it. My identity is so complex and ever-changing that it would take as long to communicate it as it does to live it (Borges's 'Del rigor en la ciencia' comes to mind). I articulate this identity in a way that helps me to achieve what I want from communicating it. Not always successfully, but it's worth trying.<br /><br />I will not bore you with an attempt to describe my identity, nor do violence to it by attempting to summarise it. Instead, I will talk about my associations, which are not the same as my identity but which have aspects that overlap with it.<br /><br />I have three tattoos, late additions to my body (only in transitioning and reaching my mid forties did I feel I really liked my fleshy home and knew how I wanted it decorated). I will use these as symbols, metaphors.<br /><br />On my left wrist is the Stonewall star. I had this done on the first Saturday after I went full-time at work. I know that Stonewall does not speak on my behalf as a trans* person: it is explicit in representing LGB interests. My sexuality overlaps, as does my experience of oppression. When asked why I have that star, I say that it is because I am queer. Or at least I do when adults ask me. My gender identity, sexuality, diet, religion (see below) and politics are as queer as can be, and the star reminds me whenever I look at it. When the children I teach ask me, I tell them (truthfully) I can't tell my left from my right and (equally truthfully) the star helps me. When I am teaching them, they don't need to know any more than that they are wonderful children and will be even better at swimming (or whatever they are learning) than they are now. Which brings me to my next tattoo.<br /><br />At the base of my belly is a picture of a wave. I am never happier than on or in the water, whether it is rowing, windsurfing or swimming and I am lost in the moment when I am doing it or teaching it. It lies close to where the sacral chakra might be if I fully understood or subscribed to the thinking. A nice coincidence, perhaps unsurprising as I practise yoga and feel rooted from somewhere thereabouts...<br /><br />On my right wrist is my most recent tattoo. It is the black and red star of the Friends' Ambulance Service. It represents my recent decision to become a Quaker. Its colours are also those of anarcho-syndicalists, some of whose political views I share. When I began to transition, Quakers accepted me from the first word just as I was, without any apparent attempt to judge, explain or reduce me to fit with their own world view. On my first Pride march, I marched with the Quakers, as to do so with any other group felt less inclusive.<br /><br />This is the association that means most to me. Quakers have argued for our essential equality since the 1650s. We have been ahead of the game on most issues of equality since then. When some people ask us whether we are Christian, we may - because they wouldn’t understand the complexity - say yes. When others ask us, we may say that it is a way of living, not a set of beliefs and that there are almost as many beliefs as there are Quakers (some unpleasant). I am a British, universalist Quaker. We speak because we feel compelled to; otherwise, we keep it to ourselves. When we meet to decide things, we do so through consensus - and it can take an age to do so. No one tells me what to believe, nor how to live my life. Were they not also bloody-minded activists in so many fields, I would worry that they didn't care enough.<br /><br />My further apologies if this has appeared to ramble. In short, I choose the ways in which I communicate with other people, and the groupings with which I associate, to help myself and to help other people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-79191175286414257942012-01-18T14:38:43.424-08:002012-01-18T14:38:43.424-08:00How I identify myself - in ANY facet of my self - ...How I identify myself - in ANY facet of my self - is MY identity. No one has my permission to speak for me in that regard. If I choose to identify myself as a female, transgender, transexual, bisexual comic, then no one can say that I'm not funny. Or that any of the other myriad ways I identify myself is not a valid identifier for me.<br /><br />I'm totally willing to let anyone else identify themselves as anything they want. What I am NOT willing to do, however, is let them do so by trying to remove some of MY identity from ME. Your definition of "woman" may differ from mine, but that does not make either definition right or wrong, valid or invalid, good or bad - only different.Jamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17962802919604963474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-37598889815140152722011-12-01T22:52:39.085-08:002011-12-01T22:52:39.085-08:00Having moved to Tasmania where the LGBTIQ communit...Having moved to Tasmania where the LGBTIQ community is small I have found that there is a great deal of mutual support within the few organisations that comprise our umbrella. There are not enough of us to have more than one umbrella. All the comments I have read on this subject seem to be out of the USA and characteristic of the ultracompetitive, zero-sum game attitude that is a basic part of American society. We can't afford that here.<br /><br />Any rejection of me as a transsexual woman who identifies as a lesbian is on the level of individuals. This is overcome on a personal level, by the person concerned getting to know me as an individual. Once that happens, there is no problem, we are fellow travellers looking out for each other.<br /><br />I have recently attended two retreats locally where the participants from all parts of the LGBTIQ spectrum shared their deepest experiences and we concluded that we all face similar issues. We have made it our mission to turn Tasmania into the San Fransisco of the Southern Hemisphere, a place where someone's gender or sexuality is a matter of little comment, and we can all live a satisfying life.Karennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-38799121482125391012011-11-07T15:12:53.039-08:002011-11-07T15:12:53.039-08:00(Coming in late, but...) What the previous anon sa...(Coming in late, but...) What the previous anon said. I am a cissexual, genderqueer gay man in a relationship with a bisexual trans man in a large Canadian city. I am continually frustrated with the utter absence of reflection on the part of 90% of the queer cis people with whom I interact regarding trans issues. More than one trans person of my acquaintance has said that straight cis people often seem to be more welcoming than the LGB community! I am in favour of the alliance, but I think it's a bit too rosy to suggest there aren't deep wellsprings of cissexism among the cis LGB community in many places.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-22200798964314699122011-09-22T09:11:30.915-07:002011-09-22T09:11:30.915-07:00Julia, you said that "Many cis lesbian and ga...Julia, you said that "Many cis lesbian and gay folks are sincerely informed about, and supportive of, transsexuals. If you have not met anyone who fits this description, it is probably because you are not active in gay/lesbian/queer spaces on a regular basis."<br /><br />As you are located in Oakland, California, I can see why you have this opinion. But I believe this is largely dependent on where you live. For example, I am involved and active in the gay/lesbian/queer spaces in my midwestern city, and I can confirm that very few cis lesbians and gays are informed and/or supportive of trans* identities and issues. <br /><br />Finding trans-friendly gays and lesbians is not as easy as getting more active in the community. It is unfair to assume that people simply aren't doing enough to find those types of people; in some places, they just don't exist. So please remember, we don't all live in queer/trans friendly meccas such as what you might find in the Bay Area.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-74419325598560651992011-09-12T16:52:46.489-07:002011-09-12T16:52:46.489-07:00Bianca,
I think what you've described is pret...Bianca,<br /><br />I think what you've described is pretty amazing and you've made some progress where I think most of us would have never thought to even try.<br /><br />I'm glad this approach is working. I admit I never would have considered it.Lisa Harneyhttp://www.questioningtransphobia.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-43159889895778425812011-09-12T11:35:05.085-07:002011-09-12T11:35:05.085-07:00Joel, it does work and is working. Nov. 20, 2010 G...Joel, it does work and is working. Nov. 20, 2010 Grooby Productions (the first and largest producer of trans-porn) put a notice on their top sites providing information about and links to TDoR events. They also used all signup proceeds for that day to set in a fund to give to non-political trans-woman focused charities. They raised in a single day $3,000 with recurring billing going to the same fund. This was a direct result of a heated conversation I had with the owner of the company (I can slap a link to it if Julia doesn't mind). <br /><br />Grooby has also offered their services in producing media to help fight the "men in the bathroom" meme that come up. The level of open distaste I get by even suggesting that we reach out to "chasers and pornographers" much less work with them has largely been dismissed and ridiculed by the folks in leadership positions.<br /><br />So, that's just one day and one guy. I have been compiling an email list of "chasers" who WANT to be more involved, but don't know how/where. These guys are less interested in the larger LGB movement and don't exactly feel welcome or particularly invested in that (not to mention that they don't consider themselves particularly "gay" and are trying to fight their own issues around being mislabeled). These guys are over 1000 in number and ready to respond to any local or national need for vocal assistance (calling, writing, etc.). I had 200 guys in NYS to help pass GENDA who never got called upon because ESPA didn't update anything after GENDA passed the assembly this year.<br /><br />The days of the creepy fetishist looking to explore his fantasy, while nowhere near over, is turning into the beginnings of an aware communicating and increasingly more willing community.<br /><br />LaughRiotGirl<br />aka Bianca LynneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-62055301950473293772011-09-11T21:39:38.647-07:002011-09-11T21:39:38.647-07:00I think it's kind of a testament to your subst...I think it's kind of a testament to your substance (and how important/volatile the subject is) that almost immediately after restarting blogging that it makes waves like this! <br /><br />Another important point is that (unless one is only going to look at it in American terms) many people who are called transsexuals in other countries identify as 'gay' or some other thing like that. In reality, it's more complicated than that, and is probably wisest to simply use the local terms, but the umbrella also serves to make the idea of transgender (or gender/sexual minority) not so completely Western.<br /><br />Queen Emily makes a good point, and to expand further: the only way to get rid of most singular oppression is to get rid of all of them, Like Dr. Pauli Murray said. <br /><br />I think that LaughRiotGirl's suggestion is a really interesting one, given that many of these men also occupy places of great privilege. I just have to wonder how easy that would be to put in action to say, those who watch pornography with trans women in it. It has definite potential (at least, in my naive mind it would).<br /><br />-Joel LaytonJoelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03606938152709530365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-13365003512495070982011-09-11T19:10:47.667-07:002011-09-11T19:10:47.667-07:00Ah, crap, Queen Emily stole half my comment.
To m...Ah, crap, Queen Emily stole half my comment.<br /><br />To me, I don't really view true transsexuals as <em>enemies</em> and certainly if any came under fire I would defend them as quickly as I would anyone else, but I find it extremely difficult to interact with them, as I am quickly miscategorized, misgendered, accused of many horrible things, both indirectly and more rarely directly. One that particularly stood out for me was a post that effectively blamed me (and others like me who hold similar positions - for example, that a trans woman who has not had surgery is still a woman) for Angie Zapata's murder, as well as other similar murders.<br /><br />What I wanted to write about was what Emily said about Vivian Namaste and crisis points. To me, it is functionally impossible to pick a single cause and say "this is the only thing I want to care about." And anyone who says that is making it clear that they're not interested in my welfare (as a disabled working class trans person who receives benefits). But not just me - most violence against trans people is specifically against trans women of color, and this violence is horrific and needs to not ever happen. So how can race be tossed aside?<br /><br />I mean other than "forgetting" about race when white trans women talk about violence or "forgetting" about race when white trans men talk about violence.<br /><br />And as I mentioned, disability - in the recent study on discrimination against trans people, a large number identified as disabled - and being trans can complicate access to necessary medical care as Robert Eads could attest if he were alive to do so. I've actually been so fortunate with my medical providers I am simply amazed. In the past I've been refused medical care because I was trans and because of dodgy and insincere "concerns" about interactions between estradiol and things like antibiotics or painkillers.<br /><br />Economic class is important because so many of us really do have a hard time finding work. I find with my disabilities (being on the autistic spectrum makes it hard for me to handle interviews) and being trans means that I simply never get hired. Emily's comment on downward pressure is important. This also crosses over directly with sex workers because so many find ourselves in sex work. I nearly ended up in sex work, but my social cluelessness basically sabotaged that plan, and I have a lot of sympathy for anyone and everyone who turns to it for survival purposes.<br /><br />I find it impossible to take "trans" or transgender or transsexual and separate it from all other things, because it is so interconnected with so many things. Because you cannot chop people into convenient pieces that are easy to relate to and discard the remainder. This is where Second Wave Feminism failed trans women and women of color, and very nearly failed lesbians. And where so many continue to fail.<br /><br />I also fail to see the point of jettisoning people who are working with us and supporting us (and whom we work with and support) just because some people do not wish to be associated with them. While I would not force them, I would appreciate it if they didn't argue that my activism or your activism or anyone else's activism should support their specific goals at the expense of all others.Lisa Harneyhttp://www.questioningtransphobia.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-61233037952486812532011-09-11T15:32:07.597-07:002011-09-11T15:32:07.597-07:00One of the most potentially beneficial alliances t...One of the most potentially beneficial alliances the trans-feminine community could make would be with queer femmes. Both parties speak outwardly of invisibility within the greater LGBT umbrella, and I would tend to agree that it is because of societal preference of masculinity over femininity. The latter, being regarded as plastic, fake, or imposed by many in LGB circles, is used against both queer femmes and trans women of all sorts. Accusations of upholding the patriarchy have been leveled at both groups, when, in all actuality, it is because of a self-imposed choice (some trans women might argue that the choice to transition was not a choice, I would argue that it was a choice made under significant duress).<br /><br />By forming this type of an alliance, our position within the LGBT umbrella could be made stronger, giving us a more credible voice to have our stories told and heard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-52613363690237667092011-09-11T12:52:40.016-07:002011-09-11T12:52:40.016-07:00To utilize a sports metaphor, you hit that one all...To utilize a sports metaphor, you hit that one all the way out of the park, Julia!<br />Cross-posting immediately:<br />http://www.facebook.com/christine.beattyChristine Beattyhttp://www.glamazon.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-13560867288921483342011-09-11T11:17:35.282-07:002011-09-11T11:17:35.282-07:00Thanks for both of these posts Julia. I fear the ...Thanks for both of these posts Julia. I fear the nuance will be lost on many people.<br /><br />As for the idea of alliance, well I like what Viviane Namaste has to say a lot - those are three crisis sites for trans women and the more organising around them the better.<br /><br />I think that Namaste's position does need to be supplemented with attention to employment, which is the source of trans downward mobility. I think we should organise with (and like!) unions, because even in places where there's anti-discrimination laws there's serious issues with access to employment. LGBT activism is often highly individualist and I think that leaves us to flounder in those situations where we most need support. Organising collectively, with and without cis people, would make a huge difference.<br /><br />Having said that, I don't think that any of this should necessary be an either/or thing? LGBT does provide a lot of support for us, and the tacking on of the T has often (in the law of unintended consequences) got trans rights through under the radar of a greater acceptance of homosexuality than transsexuality. I don't understand why there needs to be discarding of historically productive alliances in order to create new things as well...queen emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039121133703594308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-56046256550018598492011-09-11T01:49:14.301-07:002011-09-11T01:49:14.301-07:00Julia - thank you for this. I do want to offer a c...Julia - thank you for this. I do want to offer a counter alliance to the LGB. This is based on my own personal observations and activism (both online and off). I should preface this with a disclaimer. I'm a binary, heterosexual, trans woman who gets asked out on dates frequently. I mention that last bit because it allows me to come into contact with cis men who are attracted to trans women (mostly pre-op). Largely, these guys want to help us, they have personal reasons to fight the stigma of being and dating a trans woman.<br /><br />In the past 2 years I have been going online to the places these guy congregate (porn sites) and pointing out the realities and the mythologies of being with a trans woman. Frankly filling them in on my perspectives and my experiences and answering any and all questions. Pointing out how their language and their perceptions can hurt women like me and encouraging them to think of us as people and not fetishes.<br /><br />I have been able to get many of these guys to attend local TDoRs, donate money to trans-specific groups, publish trans news on their webpages, and call their elected officials on our behalf. In 2 years I feel I've done more successful activism than the previous 8 in the LGB. Just an observation,<br /><br />LaughRiotGirl aka Bianca LynneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com