tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post8431660203885912764..comments2023-05-28T23:41:17.406-07:00Comments on Whipping Girl: Alice Dreger’s disingenuous campaign against transgender activism-juliahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06703465310869693798noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-66938874529512608532016-01-07T13:07:20.112-08:002016-01-07T13:07:20.112-08:00Thanks for the comment, I'm glad you liked the...Thanks for the comment, I'm glad you liked the post, if not that particular statement.<br /><br />To clarify, I said: 'I personally don’t know any trans women who want to prevent cis women from talking about their “vaginas, vulvas. . .' etc.<br /><br />What I mean by that is that, of all the trans women I know personally, none of them are going around telling women not to speak about such things. I conceded in my piece that there are likely *some* trans individuals who do this. But from my perspective as someone in the community, such people clearly make up a minority. And my beef with Dreger was that "including such instances in a blog-post primarily intended for cisgender readers makes it seem as though most trans women are going around doing such things." <br /><br />I heard the news story you referred to about a college deciding not to perform the Vagina Monologues because of trans students' concerns. People like to cite that story because without any additional context it makes trans people seem unreasonable or anti-woman. But here is that missing context: *Many* trans people have performed in the Vagina Monologues over the years. I am one of them: in 2003, I was invited to write & perform my own monologue for a showing at my university - I've heard of this happening in other places, even though it is not officially allowed. A few years ago, Eve Ensler even added a new piece for the Vagina Monologues called “They Beat The Boy Out Of My Girl” that was created from trans women's actual stories. If you google “They Beat The Boy Out Of My Girl” you will find *lots* of YouTube videos of this piece being performed at various Vagina Monologues.<br /><br />Trans people many differ in their opinions of the Vagina Monologues (just as cis people do). But it is clear that the trans people who want to prevent showings of the play are far outnumbered by the trans people who have taken part in the play over the years. So I stand by my claim that Dreger's assertion misrepresents trans people and perspectives.-juliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06703465310869693798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-27418702798654440332016-01-07T02:12:23.405-08:002016-01-07T02:12:23.405-08:00This was a really interesting article about a topi...This was a really interesting article about a topic I knew nothing about. <br /><br />I do think that your objections to Dreger's ally piece are a bit wishful. <br /><br />You said, "Similarly, I personally don’t know any trans women who want to prevent cis women from talking about their “vaginas, vulvas, clitorises, breasts, periods, menstrual blood, birth experiences, hysterectomies.” Are there instances when a. individual trans woman may have claimed such things?"<br /><br />The thing is, I don't follow trans issues but even I heard about the renaming of the Vagina monologues to something else because not all women have vaginas. <br /><br />It was idiotic and it's out there. It grabbed headlines. It struck me as akin to a Black Lives Matter activist come out strongly against the NAACP for still using the word "colored" in their name. <br /><br />Maybe there was some bad blood between the Vagina monologues and the trans community previously that I don't know about. It just seemed so fratricidal and pointless when the Vagina monologues have been a very positive force for feminism. <br /><br /> Your refutation said you personally didn't know anyone who did x, but that's the same way Dreger argues where she just omits the dissenting view. She doesn't personally know of anY academic who disputes autogynophelia so she can say it's not an issue. <br /><br />The Holyoke thing exists. Saying you don't know anyone personally isn't an excuse not to engage with the issue.<br /><br />It's one black mark in a post I agree with otherwise. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-83457277756149357432016-01-02T20:41:55.563-08:002016-01-02T20:41:55.563-08:00Well, if you actually kept on reading, you would r...Well, if you actually kept on reading, you would realize 1) this is multi-entry post, 2) in subsequent posts I talk about the book, 3) I read her ASB article in which she based her book on.<br /><br />So in other words, you are the person who has not done the actual reading.-juliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06703465310869693798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-37222962787606252522016-01-02T20:21:51.366-08:002016-01-02T20:21:51.366-08:00"So last week I found out that Alice Dreger&#..."So last week I found out that Alice Dreger's new book, Galileo's Middle Finger: Heretics, Activists, and the Search for Justice in Science, has recently been released. I have not personally read it, but"<br /><br />And that's where I stopped reading, since you just openly admitted you're just talking out of your ass.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-90926334874130044912016-01-02T17:41:59.993-08:002016-01-02T17:41:59.993-08:00postscript on the last comment: Predictably, that ...postscript on the last comment: Predictably, that commenter (forrosailor) sent me another angry/dismissive response (which, as I warned them, I will not post). In it, they lectured me about how I clearly am biased about, and do not understand, "transgynophilia." And it wasn't a typo, they used "transgynophilia" throughout their entire response. I swear, you can't make this stuff up...-juliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06703465310869693798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-82945421870181083502016-01-02T13:24:39.146-08:002016-01-02T13:24:39.146-08:003) You accuse me multiple times of writing a "...3) You accuse me multiple times of writing a "smear" article. I am not in any way trying to "smear" Dreger - I don't go around complaining about every single things she writes. There have been numerous things she has written that I do not take issue with and have not commented on. The reason why I have intervened in these specific instances is because a) she has positioned herself as a an authority/pundit on a matter that I am highly knowledgable and passionate about, b) in my view, she is misrepresenting this matter to readers who are unlikely to know any better, and c) she has subsequently written additional essays that dismiss transgender perspectives on related matters, which suggests that she may have an agenda or ulterior motives. Which leads me to . . . <br /><br />4) You accuse me of having "obviously slanted views." Well, I definitely have views (we all do), but I believe they are well reasoned. And when I wrote my main critique of autogynephilia theory ("The Case Against Autogynephilia"), I made a point of seriously addressing all the major points that proponents of the theory have made (even the ones that are frankly rather absurd, if you ask me (and care to read)). <br /><br />But this is the thing about Dreger that I find patently offensive: She never shows the other side of the story. She never discusses *any* of the scientific studies that I cite in "The Real Autogynephilia Deniers" (linked to above, and which Dreger is aware of). And she never in any of her work on this matter seriously considers trans women's opinions regarding why we find these pseudoscientific theories so harmful (as I address above and in the previous link). All she offers are straw men, false dichotomies, and other logical fallacies (as I detail above) that strong-arm readers into accepting her narrative. <br /><br />I have always been upfront about where I am coming from and what the other side of this debate believes. Dreger is the one only showing one side (the side she prefers) of the argument. She is the one who is slanted. At least on this particular issue.-juliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06703465310869693798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-23500985571000699252016-01-02T13:23:16.689-08:002016-01-02T13:23:16.689-08:00So you are the first person to offer a dissenting ...So you are the first person to offer a dissenting view. And I normally don't post purposefully angry/dismissive responses like yours (and I won't ever again), but for the record I do want to address several misconceptions you obviously have, in the event that other readers may share them:<br /><br />1) It helps if you read through the whole post. The first part - "Alice Dreger and making the evidence fit your thesis" - was written before I read her book. But the second installment (also above) - "Galileo believed in science, Alice Dreger seemingly does not" - was written after I received the book and read it. <br /><br />So I have not only read her book, but I also a) have read her book-length Archives of Sexual Behavior article, and wrote a peer commentary in response (linked to above), and b) have read numerous Alice Dreger articles over the years (two of which I critique above) as well as her book Hermaphrodites and the Medical Invention of Sex (which I do not remember having any issues with when I read it quite some time ago).<br /><br />2) I have been following and writing about the issues Dreger tackles in her book (autogynephilia theory, J Michael Bailey's book, and community responses to it) for many years prior to Dreger's involvement in these matters (e.g., my 2007 book Whipping Girl, plus numerous articles archived on my website's trans/TS psychology page). Two of the articles I wrote on these issues (one of which is the Dreger commentary) have been published in research journals. So I am not simply some hack complaining on the internet.<br /><br />And it's not just me. In the "Galileo believed in science, Alice Dreger seemingly does not" section above, I mention other peer commentaries by John Bancroft, Ben A. Barres, Talia Mae Bettcher, Nicholas L. Clarkson, John H. Gagnon, Riki Lane, Robin M. Mathy, Charles Moser, Margaret Nichols, Elroi J. Windsor, and Madeline H. Wyndzen, which all (in different ways) came to a similar conclusion as me (i.e., that Dreger's retelling of this tale was one-sided, ignoring both the science and legitimate trans community concerns).<br /><br />[to be continued]-juliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06703465310869693798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-49531880727660086252016-01-01T14:44:57.083-08:002016-01-01T14:44:57.083-08:00Your comment section is "open to dissent"...Your comment section is "open to dissent" huh? Laughable at best, not a single comment seems to dissent with your obviously slanted views. You know, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt but you literally wrote a smear article about a book(s) you admittedly haven't even read! This is literally the poster child article for an example of someone who utterly lacks integrity. You are writing an article and fanning outrage against someone over nothing more than mere anecdotes. Ironically, this is what the author of the book you so casually smear and lie about is actually writing about, people like you.forrosailorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12235751529155438936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-49897221731176638712015-04-04T16:21:56.176-07:002015-04-04T16:21:56.176-07:00Now this is disconcerting. I didn't realize th...Now this is disconcerting. I didn't realize that Dreger was involved in that too. She has played a problematic role in the renaming of "intersex" as "disorders of sex development/DSD". I tended to give her the benefit of doubt because it *seemed* like the Intersex Society of America saw her as an ally, but now I wonder-- Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-84137055409492302812015-04-02T15:21:12.054-07:002015-04-02T15:21:12.054-07:00Thanks. But for the record, I do think that a few ...Thanks. But for the record, I do think that a few of the things that happened to Bailey during the backlash were unfair or beyond the pale. However, most of the backlash was completely justified and reasonably carried out (i.e., in the form of debates, critiques, and protests regarding how his book was (mis)presented to the lay public as "science").<br /><br />My objections with Dreger is that she does what most people who decry "political correctness run amok" do: She dwells on the most extreme instances of backlash, and in doing so, dismisses the very real and legitimate concerns of the marginalized group in question (in this case, trans folks). For those who haven't seen my Facebook page link, I talk about this problem more generally (and in a different context) here:<br /><br />http://www.ravishly.com/2015/02/05/how-make-queer-and-feminism-movements-more-inclusive-trans-activist-julia-serano-speaks-juliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06703465310869693798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8432122252544693588.post-4744964701223166642015-04-02T14:47:48.123-07:002015-04-02T14:47:48.123-07:00Thank you, Julia! Our getting trashed by these so-...Thank you, Julia! Our getting trashed by these so-called "scientists" has to be stopped, which can only be done by calling them out and exposing them. If that is out-of-control "political correctness" in their eyes, then too bad for them.Judithehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16993309061780130062noreply@blogger.com